The Liberal Responds: Thanks for the comments
Created and posted for your consideration by Matthew Glenn at 11:09 AMIn the comment section of My Story and the LDS Church my new friend and follower Dave said this:
David said...
I am also very curious now. I know that, as a whole, those who follow the LDS church are quite conservative.A good portion of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are certainly more conservative than me. But I think it's a misconception that we're all republicans.
You state that you are a liberal because you are a registered Democrat plus other factors, that while they are not mainstream for a devout Mormon, are still no where near the path of liberalism. There are more Democrats that are not liberal than those that are.I agree there are many democrats who are not "Liberals" but I'm sure there are republicans who aren't really conservative either. I am a liberal Mormon in the sense that I have a potty mouth, I speak uncensored for the most part, no topic is taboo, I watch whatever media I take an active interest in whether it be Rated G or NC-17, I drink Coke (caffeinated), I watch Jon Stewart, I watch Real Time with Bill Maher, we get the Victoria Secret Catalog, and I'm not afraid of having sex in positions other than "missionary".
I agree with most of this. My stance on abortion is right to choose. I understand this world doesn't hold my religious views about life and death. People make dumb mistakes and really should have to pay for them for the rest of their lives. HOWEVER, I think their needs to be an extensive class or counseling session prior to having an abortion if there isn't already. It isn't a decision to be taken lightly. There should be encouragement to choose adoption, and full disclosure about all the possible side effects and emotional problems. But in the end people shouldn't be forced to be parents even if they make a bad choice.
Liberals tend to side with right to choice vs. right to life., big government, higher taxes, political correctness, government regulation of commerce, no religion, social programs etc. Are these things that you hold to be true as well?
I love money as much as the next person, but I think there is a major need to have the government control certain aspects of our lifes, WITHIN REASON. Health Care is one of those. Our health care system is a JOKE. IF I had health insurance, I don't because we're too poor, it would be costing me for a family of 3 (who have been perfectly healthy for years) upwards of 3 to $400 a month, and even then there a limits on what they'll pay for. RETARDED! UNACCEPTABLE! It's a joke. Even in the 3rd world country of Brazil, where I served as a missionary, I got treated better FOR FREE, then some of the clinics and doctors I've been to here in the most powerful country in the world. Now, I think Brazil shows a very good model for how things could be here in the USA. They have universal health care for most things (not cosmetics), public free hospitals. You can walk in, and be treated, true there are lines, but you see a doctor. They also have Private hospitals, that if you choose to pay for health care above and beyond what the government provides, you have the right to use. The only other bigger crook in this country besides Wall Street, are the Health Care companies. They have ruined the medical world.
I'm not on the attack here. I just see inconsistencies in your reason for labeling yourself a liberal. You are putting yourself in the same camp as most of the media elite and people like Al Franken and Janeane Garofalo as examples. These examples, by the way, are as far as you can possibly get from Glenn Beck, who I only mention because you had told me he was the only one worth watching on Fox in one of your tweets to me.I respect Glenn Beck because he is an incredible guy, who bottomed out in life, came back, found God, eventually found the true Church of Jesus Christ, and has now become a successful journalist. I don't agree with a LOT of what he says. I saw him on a Jon Stewart clip crying about how much he loves this country and how thinks it's getting torn apart blah blah and I just rolled my eyes. Nothing save Christ is perfect, including our country. And why? Because it's a democracy run by imperfect people who frequently make bad decisions. I also agree with and disagree with people like Michael Moore but I respect their right to share their opinions and views.
I myself am a conservative. I beleive in less government, no bailouts, lower taxes, the freedom to express myself religiously or philosophically as I choose without being labeled and that elected officials are in office by our pleasure and should be representing us as we tell them to not as they "think" we should be represented. I have recently dumped my registration with the Republican party as they, and the Democrats, are completely useless, self serving and are no longer operating under the constitution of the United States or in the best interests of it's people. I am joining the Libertarian party which is based more on the principal of liberty and is focused on constitutionalism and fair political play. They are closer to down the middle, but, I still see them as fairly conservative even if they reject the label.I am a bit disturbed you think just because I'm a democrat that I can't express myself religiously. Since when are Democrats/Liberals godless atheists? We don't have all the answers, the Bible doesn't have all the answers, the Book of Mormon doesn't have all the answers, only GOD does. And until the day He feels ready to come down and straighten out this mess of a world we live in, things will continue to be imperfect. Just because I disagree politically with you, the GOP, the Libertarians, and most conservatives, doesn't mean I don't believe in God, the Prophet Joseph Smith, and the LDS Church. I am happy to have met you Dave, I enjoy civil discussions like this and look forward to YOURS and EVERYONE else's comments very soon.
Just wondering how you justify calling yourself a liberal while being a member of the LDS church at the same time.
Sorry if I'm over explaining...the fingers won't stop once they get rolling.
Dave
Until then rant over!
Liberal Mormon
Labels: Abortion, Conservative, LDS, Liberal Mormon, Mormon News
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Sorry, but by your own definitions wouldn't that mean that members of the church that live closer to the church's standards are likely more conservative?
2. “I am a liberal Mormon in the sense that I have a potty mouth, I speak uncensored for the most part, no topic is taboo, I watch whatever media I take an active interest in whether it be Rated G or NC-17, I drink Coke (caffeinated), I watch Jon Stewart, I watch Real Time with Bill Maher, we get the Victoria Secret Catalog, and I'm not afraid of having sex in positions other than "missionary".
This has nothing to do with political affiliations and is one of the reasons I asked in the first place. I have never in my life ever considered the use of language with expletives to be even one of the determining factors in my political views. I worked for seven years with Navy veterans from WWI, Korea, Vietnam and Iraq. I learned how to make up phrases and compound words that, quite honestly, make the F-bomb look like the punch-line to a kindergartner's riddle. I’ve even drunk myself into the fourth dimension every other night for a year while in college. Despite all that, I'm still more on the conservative side of the center. I was raised as a United Presbyterian, spent three years in Catholic school and several more years in Jewish summer camps and Synagogue. In the end, I'm "still" foul mouthed, have a debased sense of humor, am not very religious (I like Confucius the best at the moment) and I'm still conservative in my political views, positions for sexual intercourse not withstanding. (a total TMI on your part by the way) ;)
By your reckoning I don't fit either.
3. Historically, and call it profiling if you will, the following of an organized religion and conservative political views "usually" go together. I guess the better word to use in my original comment would have been “average” in stead of “whole.” This is the other reason for my original inquiry. For the most part, children end up with a belief system equal or close to that of their parents. This is one of the reasons why family is so important to most religions.
And here’s a question for you. If you love money as much as anyone else, how do you feel about the government taking more and more of it to fund those that do not have as much through social programs or more direct means? Yes, this is a loaded question. If you really love it you're in conflict with your religious beliefs (because I'm not sure I know of any religion that holds coveting anything very highly) and you would also have a conservative view when it comes to having it taken from you since you're the one that worked for it in the first place. And, don't you tithe 10% of your gross income to begin with? If you're in the lowest tax bracket for couples that means that federal plus tithing puts you at 35%. And, that's not even counting FICA, Medicare, Social Security (a joke in of itself), state and local income, services and sales taxes. That adds up pretty quickly. And really, isn't your tithing, in part, for support of social services through your church and for it’s members?
Remember that social programs, how ever warm and fuzzy they make you feel, are a loss of liberty through a reduction in responsibility. If you can’t take care of it your self, whatever it may be, then you are at the mercy of those who do if you won’t seek out your own solution. Rely on the state and you have no liberty to choose or choose how to fix it yourself.
The health care issue, and others, is not one to be solved by our money. It is to be solved through legislation by getting rid of frivolous malpractice law suits, reducing the cost of materials and by setting caps on litigation awards. Why should the taking or your blood pressure, a process that takes about 30 seconds, cost $40? (as an example.) If you pay without asking then it's your own fault.
But I digress. ;)
4. “My stance on abortion is right to choose. I understand this world doesn't hold my religious views about life and death. People make dumb mistakes and really should have to pay for them for the rest of their lives. HOWEVER, I think their needs to be an extensive class or counseling session prior to having an abortion if there isn't already. It isn't a decision to be taken lightly. There should be encouragement to choose adoption, and full disclosure about all the possible side effects and emotional problems. But in the end people shouldn't be forced to be parents even if they make a bad choice.”
While I would agree that a government has no right to mandate by law what someone does with their own body it is my “personal opinion” that it is amoral to terminate a child at any point after conception. And since someone can put the child up for adoption, Pro Life in no way forces anyone to be a parent. After having children yourself, can you really say, with certainty, it’s ok to end a baby’s existence after conception? And life of the child aside, abortion, unless for medical reasons, is simply an example of how we, as a society no longer want to take responsibility for our actions. Birth is one of the many consequences of the action of having sex. As a nation built on liberty, we’re supposed to take responsibility for our actions. I do agree with you that there should be more education in this area, before hand, so that the consequences are understood before passionate action takes place.
5. “I respect Glenn Beck because he is an incredible guy, who bottomed out in life, came back, found God, eventually found the true Church of Jesus Christ, and has now become a successful journalist. I don't agree with a LOT of what he says. I saw him on a Jon Stewart clip crying about how much he loves this country and how thinks it's getting torn apart blah blah and I just rolled my eyes.”
If you respect someone, you don’t roll your eyes when they cry. This man cries because of the great bottom in his life, his climb up from it and his passions.
6. “I am a bit disturbed you think just because I'm a democrat that I can't express myself religiously.”
I wasn’t. Groups like the ACLU, which are backed by liberals, are the ones that do. The founding fathers were adamant about separation of church and state, not the separation of individual religious expression from our daily lives. This freedom of expression is something that most liberal groups stomp on under the argument that they are offended by it or they think that their views should have equal exposure. What they, “most” liberals fail to see is that it’s not about them. It’s about me. For each and every person, it is about themselves and their freedom to express themselves as they see fit regardless of what others think. But now we have political correctness and tolerance. Political correctness is simply a currently accepted form of self censorship, thereby defeating the first amendment by making people afraid to say what they think. And tolerance, which means to endure or put up with, does nothing for the more important and altruistic goal of acceptance, which is the cornerstone of love. If you love your fellow man you don’t tolerate them, you accept them.
I hope this all still sounds civil to you. Tone of voice and inflection are completely lost in translation to this medium.
Dave